Compatibility of the Leica M lenses
with the Minolta CLE and the Leica CL

In this page : Late Leica M lenses on the CLE CL and CLE lenses on M cameras Old Leica M lenses on the Minolta CLE Screw Leica lenses on the Minolta CLE Retractable Leica M lenses and unfitting lenses Leica lenses chronological table Leica cameras chronological table Dedicated links

The Minolta CLE is compact. Its telemetric base is reduced, therefore the rangefinder window is nearly upon the optical axis, close to the top of lenses. The Rokkor CLE lenses (28, 40 and 90 mm) have been designed with this compactness in mind. The Leica M lenses and especially their sunshades are likely to block the sight in the viewer, or, worse, the window of the rangefinder, having focusing impossible.		The 28 CLE on the Minolta CLE
These photographs try to give the best idea of the obstruction of the rangefinder : perfectly free with the 28 CLE, it is obviously out of order with the 50 f1.		The 50 f 1 Noctilux on the Minolta CLE :
The opening of the CLE is not as wide as that of an M6:
The cell is located at the bottom on the Minolta CLE, a protective shroud baffle limits the free passage, preventing the mounting of the widest rear optical groups.		Minolta CLE
The cell of the M6 is on the upper left corner (looking from front). This design leaves free passage for the largest rear optical groups. By the way, the position of the cell on the M6 origins a non-symetrical response of metering. Some differences in the shroud baffle of M6 are recorded, the last version being the widest.		Leica M6
Criteria to be taken to mount Leica M lenses on a Minolta CLE : Over all, the mechanical possibility to mount the lens, which excludes: lenses whose rear is too wide (such as the 35 mm 1,4) lenses provided with nondismountable spectacles.   Is the rangefinder focusing possible? without sunshade? and with sunshade ? at all the distances ? check carefully what occurs at short distance: the frame in the viewer glides to the right bottom, correcting the parallax and the image of rangefinder in superposition may vanish.   which frame appears in the viewer ? is this well the proper frame ?   does the cell react suitably?   The best way of proceeding is to try to mount the lens on a Minolta CLE without lens, of which shutter curtain is maintained open on long-time exposure. One sees the inner of the camera and thus can limit the risk of scratching the lens and/or the case (I slightly rubbed the rear element of a 35 mm 1,4). It is wise to focus the lens at its closest distance (so, the optical unit is carried ahead the deepest in the barrel). Then mount the lens while supervising the introduction (for example the 135 mm f 4 wears a protruding pin). Once mounted, while keeping the focal shutter opened, rotate gently the lens on infinity, still looking in the camera to the movement of the optical unit and supervising its action on the focusing cam. Then, inspect what occurs in the viewer. Check focusing in horizontal and vertical framing (both - I insist) at infinity, medium and short distance with another lens working properly. Ouf! a little long.



 

Late Leica M lenses on the CLE




Lens	Part Number	Fitting	Frame visible	Obstruction in viewer	comment	tested myself
Wide lenses
21 mm 2,8	11134	yes	28/90	1/4	the sunshade blinds the rangefinder possible to use but defective	no
21 mm 2,8 aspherical	11135	yes	28/90	1/4	the sunshade blocks the rangefinder possible to use but defective	yes
24 mm 2,8 aspherical	11878	yes	?	?	size nearly as 21 mm asph - the whole viewer of CLE covers 24 mm	by Robert Jones
28 mm 2,8 old	11804	yes	28/90	1/5	correct - a little bulky	yes
28 mm 2,8	11809	yes	28/90	1/5	correct - a little invading	yes
28 mm f 2 aspherical	11604	yes	?	1/8	nearly perfect	by Double Expo
35 mm 1,4 old	11870	no	/	/	impossible to fit the rear lens rubs - danger	yes
35 mm 1,4 aspherical	11874	yes	40	1/4	possible to use but defective	yes
35 mm f 2 (before 1980)	11309	yes	28	?	possible to use but defective	no
35 mm f 2	11310	no	/	/	impossible to fit	no
35 mm f 2 aspherical	11879	?	?	?	?	no
Standards
50 mm f 2 old	11819	yes	40	1/5	possible to use but defective	yes
50 mm f 2 new	11819	yes	40	1/5	possible to use but defective	yes
50 mm 1,4	11114	yes	40	1/4	possible to use but defective	yes
50 mm f 1 new	11822	limit	40	1/3	focusing impossible rangefinder window blocked strongly defective	yes
Tele-photo lenses
75 mm 1,4	11815	yes	40	1/4	no adequate frame focusing almost impossible	yes
90 mm f 2	11136	yes	90		just acceptable impossible to focuse near	no
90 mm f 2 apo	11884	?	?	?	?	no
90 mm 2,8 old	11800	yes	90	free	perfect focusing inaccurate with 2,8	yes
90 mm 2,8 new	11807	yes	90	free	good focusing inaccurate with 2,8	yes
135 mm 2,8	11829	to avoid	/	/	spectacles rub while mounting, and blind viewer and rangefinder	yes
135 mm f 4	11851	hard to fit	90	free	correct - no adequate frame possible to use with accessory finder	yes
135 mm 3,4 apo	11889	?	?	?	?	no
Varifocal
28/35/50 mm	11890	?	?		?	no
Complement
Visoflex 3	16498	yes	?	/	withdraw viewing hood before mounting Bulky - Precarious release	yes






 

Old Leica M lenses on the CLE

Warning : I reproduce a table of semi-official Minolta information. I did not test myself.



Lenses	Part number	Fitting possible	Frame visible	Obstruction in the viewer	comment
Short lenses
15 mm f 8	11003	not	/	/	impossible to fit
21 mm f 4	SUMOM	yes	28/40	?	possible - no adequate frame cell unpossible to use
21 mm f 3,4	11103	yes	28/40	?	possible - no adequate frame cell unpossible to use
28 mm 2,8 old	11804	yes	28/90	yes	correct - invaded sight
Standards
50 mm 1,5	SOMIA	yes	40	yes	no adequate frame focusing impossible close
Tele-photo lenses
90 mm 2,8 old	11129	yes	90	a little	correct
90 mm f 4	11540	yes	90	free	correct

 

Screw lenses on the Minolta CLE

Lenses	Part number	Fitting possible	Frame visible	Obstruction in the viewer	comment
Table to supplement with some of these lenses
/	/	/	/	/	/
/	/	/	/	/	/

 



 

Leica CL and Rokkor CLE lenses on the Leica M cameras




The Leica CL and Rokkor CLE lenses are mounted without any mechanical obstacle on the Leica M bodies. However Leica gives warnings: the focusing could be inaccurate on the Leica bodies with the Leica CL lenses. They have a direct slope to actuate the focusing cam, simpler and less expensive to machine than the differential slope of the Leica M lenses. I haven't seen great difference. Sincerely, the focusing of the Noctilux at f1 is a greater challenge than that of a 40 CL on an M6. On an M6, a 28 mm CLE projects the 35/135mm frames, the 40 CLE projects 50/75 mm frames and the 90 user is happy to see the 28/90 mm frames. This may be modified by a repair man, by a recess on the cam of the lens, but the so modified lens will no more project the correct frame on a CLE body ... The greatest disadvantage is the absence of specific frame in the viewer of an M body for the 40 CL and CLE. One will frame on hazard. A pity, as the 40 CL is a super Summicron. I found it more incisive than the 40 CLE. It is said however that it is the same ... Since the full viewer of the M6 is approximately 28 mm, the 28 CLE was a good choice with it instead of former Leica M 28 which were a little weak until the 11804 included. The last 28 mm Leica exceeds head and shoulders the CLE, which I keep from now on in a box. At the 2000' Photokina a new 28 mm f2 has been introduced, advertised as even better.



 

On the Leica CL: fitting retractable Leica M lenses. Some optics not to be gone up

Warning : I only mention Leica  information. I did not test myself.


Retractable lenses To avoid damaging the mobile arm carrying the cell of the Leica CL, these optics must be provided on the sliding part of the barrel with an adhesive tape (of old Dymo kind) limiting their retraction in the body. The tape must be stuck on the outer part of the sliding barrel, just below the head of the lens. Its width must be at least 9,5 mm with: Elmar 50 mm f 2,8 and f 3,5, Summar and Summitar 50 mm f 2, Elmar 90 mm f 4. The width of the tape must be at least 13,5 mm with the Hektor 50 mm f2,5.

Lenses impossible to mount The Elmarit 28 mm F 2,8 before number 2314921 and the Super-Angulon 21 mm can't be used on the Leica CL, nor the 90 mm f 2, 135 mm f 4 and 50 mm f 1. But the Summilux 35 mm f 1,4 (which doesn't fit the Minolta CLE) can be used on the Leica CL.






 

Leica lenses chronological table




Leica data
Year	From	To	Year	From	To	Année	From	To
1962	1913001	1967100	1971	2468501	2503100	1980	3013601	3087000
1963	1967101	2015700	1972	2503101	2556500	1981	3087001	3160500
1964	2015701	2077500	1973	2556501	2663400	1982	3160501	3249100
1965	2077501	2156300	1974	2663401	2731900	1983	3249101	3294900
1966	2156301	2236500	1975	2731901	2761100	1984	3294901	3346200
1967	2236501	2254400	1976	2761101	2809400	1985	3346201	3383200
1968	2254401	2312750	1977	2809401	2880600	1986	3383201	3422890
1969	2312751	2384700	1978	2880601	2967200	1987	3422891	3455870
1970	2384701	2468500	1979	2967201	3013600	1988	3455871	?
An approximate list based on marketed items
1989	3480000	3505000	1994	3645000	3680000	1999	3825000	3860000
1990	3505000	3540000	1995	3680000	3730000	2000	3860000	3900000
1991	3540000	3585000	1996	3730000	3760000	2001	3900000	3950000
1992	3585000	3610000	1997	3760000	3790000	2002	3950000
1993	3610000	3645000	1998	3790000	3825000	2003

If you have any info on last years, please e.mail me




Leica cameras chronological table




Leica data
Year	From	To	Year	From	To	Year	From	To
1962	1037000	1065200	1970	1248200	1267500	1978	1470000	1502000
1963	1067501	1091000	1971	1267500	1289000	1979	1502000	1527200
1964	1091001	1102900	1972	1289000	1345500	1980	1527200	1543000
1965	1102901	1136500	1973	1345500	1375000	1981	1543000	1564000
1966	1136501	1164865	1974	13750800	1386700	1982	1564000	1604000
1967	1164866	1185000	1975	1386700	1443000	1983	1604000	1637500
1968	1185001	1205000	1976	1443000	1449000	1984	1637500	1664000
1969	1205000	1248500	1977	1449000	1470000	1985	1664000	1682000
An approximate list based on marketed items
1986	1682000	?	1992	?	?	1998	?	?
1987	?	?	1993	?	?	1999	?	?
1988	?	?	1994	?	?	2000	?	2470000
1989	?	?	1995	?	?	2001	?	?
1990	?	?	1996	2150000	?	2002	2760000
1991	?	?	1997	?	2250000	2003


After 1968, many batches have been spread over two years or more, therefore the limits are fuzzy (emphasized numbers).
If you have any info on years after 1986, please e.mail me




Serial numbers of Leica CL :

Leica CL   1973/1974 :  1300001 - 1335000   1974/1975 :  1395001 - 1410000   et 1975/1976 :  1425001 - 1440000   (65000 have been made)

Some special bodies  :

M2 lacked in black   1962 :  1053101 - 1053250   1964 :  1093501 - 1093750   1965 :  1130001 - 1130300   and 1968 : 1207000 (only one)  (total 701)

M3 lacked in black   1962 :  1059850 - 1059999   1964 :  1097701 - 1097850   1965 :  1134001 - 1134150 - and   1966 :  1157591 - 1157600  (total 460)

M4 lacked in black   1968 :  1207001 - 1207480   1969 :  1225001 - 1225800   1969/70 :  1246201 - 1248100   1970/71 :  1266001 - 1266100   1970 :  1266132 -1267100 - and   1971 :  1286201 - 1286700  (total 4749)






Leica bookmarks




Cameras
	Camera Quest Classics Camera by Stephen Gandy, a repairg man : a lot of pages, of which a bunch on Leica, Minolta CLE and other RF cameras. Documented and self experienced, a bit opinionated.
Lenses
	Leica papers by Erwin Puts, guru of Leica lenses testing Hologon 16 mm - Heliar 15 mm by Godfrey DiGiorgi, and other good material on his site (Minox etc..)
Corporate's site
	Leica : the site was easier to navigate before its relooking during the 2000' summer. Choose "publications" and then "product information" to get the page dedicated to the uploading of litterature.

 

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© D. Césari - Last update 5 - 21 - 2002